( Witness No : 100 )

Name : Shri R.C. Thakur
Age : Years
Occupation : ACP, Police Control Room, Headquarter
Address :

On SA

The file (which is now given Exhibit No.W100/1) contains report made by DCP (East) to the Commissioner of Police on 20.11.84. It is from pages 1 to 3. At page 12 of the file is the letter from DCP (East) to the Addl. CP (CID). It was sent on 22.3.85. Along with the letter there is a detailed report made by him with respect to the incidents which had taken place in East District and the action taken thereon. At page 48 there is a tabular statement regarding various incidents which have taken place, police station wise.

Cross examination by Shri H.S. Phoolka, Senior Advocate on behalf of November ’84 Carnage Justice Committee :

On the basis of the record I say that there are 29 deaths within the area of Seemapuri Police Station. It is true that in the statement it is so mentioned that 247 deaths have taken place, according to Delhi Administration Record. I cannot say who had added those figures in the statement.

I cannot say now whether the FIR No.511 and the case papers together disclose more than 65 deaths. I will have to verify the list ( Exhibit No.W100/2) the number of complaints and gather information as to how many deaths have really taken place. I can submit the list only after verifying the papers. I had asked for additional force on 1.11.84 in the afternoon. Incidents of violence had started in my area at about 12.00 Noon on 1.11.84. The higher officers had visited my area. The DCP has visited my area on 1^st and 2^nd November, 1984. I do not remember if Addl.CP had visited my area. The higher officers were also moving in the area and thus aware of the situation within the area. Moreover I also used to inform them about the situation in the area. I had not noticed army in my area but I had seen BSF people within the area of my Police Station. I cannot say whether the BSF personnel had resorted to firing in my area. My attention is drawn to entry made at 1607 Hrs. on page 86 of Exhibit No.W90/10, I say that it was the message received from the District Control Room to the effect that SHO should collect information and send it to Commissioner of Police. My attention is drawn to the entry made at 0125 Hrs on 2.11.84 at page 86 ; it is stated therein that it reads nil report of dead bodies. My attention is also drawn to entry made 0947 Hrs on 2.11.84 at page 88 ; wherein it is stated that the figures which are given in night are found to be incorrect, the SHO should inform the PA to DCP on phone about the correct position. I must have talked to the DCP on phone. I do not remember what I have reported then. I had not made any arrests either on 1^st or 2^nd November, 1984 as it was not possible for the police to make any arrests. It was not possible to arrest anyone as the mob used to run away on seeing the police and the police was mostly on wheels. My area consisted of jhuggies and such colonies and people used to come from different directions and then disappear on seeing the police. I had seen mobs on 1.11.84 at about half a dozen places. The mob used to be of 2000 persons, 3000 persons or 4000 persons. On 2.11.84 also I had come across mobs at about 6 or 7 places. Some persons in the mob used to have sticks and rods with them. I had not noticed any one carrying any inflammable articles. I had not heard any slogans raised by the mobs. I cannot say whether the persons in the mobs were local people or the outsiders. As far as I remember I was posted in that Police Station sometime in March ’84. I did not know Ms. Jamuna Devi or Dr. Verma of the Nandnagari area. I have not come to know about that. Since I do not know them I cannot say whether they were active members of the Congress party. I cannot say whether Ms. Jamuna Devi and her four sons and Dr. Verma were accused in many cases including FIR No.511 of 84. As it is mentioned in the case diary by the Investigating Officer that Dr. Verma is an influential man in the area, I say that it must have been so. I was at the Police Station till February ’85. The investigation of that case was transferred to Vigilance Branch. The case was transferred on 4.12.84. It is true that till 4.12.84 those six persons were not arrested. I say that that the case was till then under investigation. As far as I remember no body was arrested for the substantive offence of murder. It is not necessary that each and every act of firing must be recorded in Daily Diary. It is true that it is shown at page 86 of file exhibit no.W90/9 that an entry was made of firing on 1.11.84. It is quite possible that the police officer might have the time to record that entry and he had made that entry. It is incorrect to say that the police had not resorted to firing on 1.11.84 as stated except on one occasion as stated in Daily Diary entry no.14-A at page 86 of exhibit No.W90/9. How much ammunition was used and issued will be available with the Mal Khana of the Police Station. It is not correct to say that in respect of every act of firing or lathicharge or tear gas an entry has to be made in the Daily Diary either on that day or on the subsequent day ; that would depend upon the situation.

It is true that the total strength of the Police Station on 1.11.84 was about 131 as mentioned on page 93 of Exhibit No.W90/9. Between 1^st and 3^rd November, 1984 the total police force at Nandnagari Police Post was 31. I cannot say whether the list (which is now given Exhibit W100/3) is the correct list about the number of deaths in Nandnagari area. I had made some preventive arrests between 31.10.84 and 4.11.84 but I cannot say how many of them were bad characters. On 3.11.84, 29 persons were arrested by way of preventive action. 34 more persons were arrested on 4.11.84 as preventive action.

In most of the cases reported as untraced, investigation was done by the local police. Since I was not concerned with the case no.504, I cannot say why it was stated as untraced. Ordinarily the SHO supervises any offence that has been registered u/s 302 I.P.C. Those challans which were filed while I was SHO might have gone under my signature. The final report in FIR 501 was not under my signatures. The final report in FIR 507 was sent through me. It was treated as untraced as there was no evidence on the basis of which the case could have been filed against anyone. As there is no case diary available, I cannot say why I had reported like that in that case. I cannot say where the case diary would be now. The final report in FIR 509 was also sent through me. I cannot say in the absence of case diary as to why that was reported as untraced.

On 1.11.84 at 10.45 AM I had received information regarding imposition of curfew. I cannot say what is the significance of the entry made at 1435 Hrs on 4.11.84 (page 8) of Exhibit No.W90/11. I cannot say whose call sign was 61. I cannot say whose call sign was 13. The figure 63 can be the call sign of static set of the Police Station. It is true that a message was received at 2218 Hrs on 2.11.84 at page 93 as to what had happened regarding the message which was sent to the effect that a guide be sent to accompany the army which was stationed at Police Station Shahdara. That message was not given to me. That message was taken by the Duty Officer. I say that there is an entry made at 0753 on 3.11.84 at page 95 in the log book that the military had reached Nandnagari area before the guide could reach Shahdara. I do not know if the guide was sent to Nandnagari.

[ According to Mr. H.S. Phoolka, Senior Counsel on behalf of November ’84 Carnage Justice Committee, the military was at Nandnagari before the guide could reach Nandnagari the military had left. ]

I do not know where the guide was sent. I do not know if the military had reached Nandnagari.

Read over and found correct